Geetesh, Interviewed by TJ Walker

TJ: Our special guest today is internationally renowned PowerPoint expert, Geetesh Bajaj. He is the founder of Indezine, one of the most well-known websites and newsletters read by millions each month on all aspects of the technology of PowerPoint. In this show, you're going to learn some real insights. I know I learned a lot, like what is the foolproof way of actually starting a content website and making money.

It's very different from a lot of strategies you typically hear. He goes into exactly how he uses technology when creating PowerPoint presentations, and has some interesting frames—ways of looking at this. He says you should look at a PowerPoint slide, the same way you look out a window, in your own home—a fascinating perspective. And he has insights that you may have heard before but he just says it in an intriguing memorable way; just simple tips like when you're giving a PowerPoint presentation, "Don't impress. Inform!" It sounds simple and yet most people don't do it.

Now, he's a guy who has published half a dozen books, speaks, and trains all over the world, has millions of readers, viewers, consumers of his content, and he does it all from Hyderabad, India—a fascinating personal story of how he rose from a family business making food products. In India, at a time when it was hard to even get a landline to now becoming a true technology and communications leader around the world. Please settle back and get ready for a great interview. Geetesh, thanks for being our guest today.

Geetesh: It's wonderful being here today, TJ.

TJ: A lot of our listeners are familiar with your name and who you are because you've done short, sort of guests appearances here. Before we talk about your specific niche, issues like PowerPoint...Today is a little different. We want to really go deep, find out more about who you are, and how did a guy who lives on the other side of the world—you now live in Hyderabad, India... become so influential throughout the world, and especially in the United States when it comes to PowerPoint presentations. As noted in the introduction, you are a Microsoft MVP, a Most Valuable Professional with respect to PowerPoint. You've written half a dozen books on communication and PowerPoint. Your Cutting-Edge PowerPoint for Dummies is still an extremely popular book, and hundreds of thousands of people are reading your newsletter every single week, and going to your Indezine site. Where did this all start?

Geetesh: I never planned this, TJ. And it just happened. One thing led to the other. I was fascinated by what I was doing, I was passionate about what I was doing, and that's how I got here. It's a journey, and I'm on the journey now.

TJ: Now what were you doing in, say high school or college, because I remember ten years ago, when I was in Bangalore, working with executives at Infosys, they were telling me that you know ten years earlier, they had to wait eighteen months just to place an order for a phone line; forget the Internet or high-speed access—and it was another eighteen months before the phone line got put in... so, what was your life like growing up in a relatively small town in India?

Geetesh: Not really a small town. Even in those days, Hyderabad was the sixth largest city in India, and Indian cities are huge. So it was probably not as well known outside India.

TJ: And then there goes my there goes my American bias, ignorance... If I haven't heard of it, it must be a small town.

05:16 American no no that's OK It's like the world. Well was actually islands of knowledge I would say segregated Every from each other and now everything is just merged and become one big thing. So I think that's changed a lot of things for people all over the world in the US In India elsewhere. So that's how it is but how growing up in India during that sort of environment. What have was to happen that's true. You have to wait eighteen months for a phone sometimes even more but that was something like twenty five thirty years ago. And I think since twenty years ago a lot of things have been changing and today it's very important that we put across focus on the situation today in India. You can actually walk down get a phone and probably the phone. It's probably the cheapest in the world. As far as phone Cosco and everybody has a phone and they have like billions of phones away or so that's how it's changed over the years and is even had countless people skip the whole P.C. generation in just the right. From Nothing. Cellular in mobile technology which in some cases could be an advantage and in some cases not headed. Yes you're right. Easy. So what were you doing out of high school early twenty's and how did you get into the whole Powerpoint world. You know something when I was in the early twenties we did not really have Internet as we take for granted. Nowadays we used to have dial up connections and you could see a black screen DOS like window where you would just go and type something in a terminal style window and that's how it would work. We would get e-mail and probably go and participate in newsgroups. That was how the Internet was for me. First when I encountered it and had internet working for me at home. And that gradually changed and now we have really high speed connections so everything's changed but the important part is that the grounding and what I learnt from working on internet that way in a more primitive a you know is something that had Stephen today and a lot of people who just jumped at Generation and got straight to mobile technologies. A lot of stuff that they're not of arrow of Especially when they're troubleshooting they really get in there they don't know what to do and that sort of grounding really helps in doing troubleshooting and getting out of problem areas. Now you started in design a website it's also a newsletter a long time ago that in live itself is not impressive but what is impressive is you've stuck with it because at contention. I've started things like the speaking Journal dot com and the pitching well I've started various online ventures. And after about six months eight months. I found it doesn't get traction and the interesting. And next thing you know you haven't touched it for a year and a half and it's a distant memory and the domain name wipes and that's that's really the reality of what ninety eight percent of people who high domain names. You're different had this happen. That's probably about the person I am I really like to when I do something I have to do it completely and I just can leave things and that's a that's actually a problem for me because rather than in design I have a whole lot of bunch of other sites which probably don't do half as well as not really don't do that. Well I but I just stick on to them. It's very difficult for me to let go of stuff and as I was in design is concerned that's really been an advantage as you said. Now we've linked in design in the show notes people can check them for people who haven't been there. Walk us through the site what it's all about. I think I spoke to a while ago about getting on the terminal terminal like Windows and getting out to newsgroups and that's that's how actually how in design started because I would get on newsgroups and I had people asking questions on Powerpoint and I was always fascinated by presentations and powerpoint and I had a bunch of questions that I wanted to ask people and I did not know whom to ask. So those newsgroups are wonderful and. I would just go and ask questions there and then I found out a lot of questions. Other people were asking that I could answer and that's what I did but then and second how are you able to answer them were you. Already Creating Power Points giving speeches. How did you know the answers. No not giving speeches at that point of time I was more of creating powerpoint presentations then and there are a lot of things that I've wanted to work with point and I wanted to know more about it and asking questions. Because a bunch of wonderful people online answering those questions and the M.V.P.'s and then I became one of them. Now what is that as well be honest with you. I have I have been in the public speaking world. For three decades I thought People Power Point until six months ago I'm not sure I ever heard this phrase and the what is it really mean why is it significant. Why should people care or respect that. It's a people to respect that but the fact is M.T.V. stands for most valuable professional. It's an award that Microsoft gives out to people who represent some of their technologies Power Point being one of them. There are many many M.V.P.'s all over the world and there are like thirty English speaking Powerpoint M.V.P.'s. A lot of them in the U.S. Canada Europe. And so when you. So when you say many it's not given are like party favors it's not like just being an authorized service technician for a Microsoft computer where thousands and thousands of people can get that this is a relatively select small group Fertel you cannot become an amputee you don't decide to be an M.V.P. because it's an award. So you have to be selected and be awarded and you have to be passionate about a technology and a lot of people ask me what does it take to be an M.V.P. and I tell them if you want to be an M.V.P. and if you want to always continue being one then what you would do and what you're passionate about and what you're working and how you are sharing your knowledge and being involved with the technology. You would do the same even if you were not an M.V.P. of back level of fashion is there. And that's what sets you apart as an M.V.P. A lot of people young people myself included get interested in speaking public speaking presenting once there's an interest there. Different avenues to go down and you can obsess over being a motivational speaker and being the next Anthony Robins you can focus on being a humorist maybe even go the standup comedy route. You seem drawn to the technology side the slide creation the parapet won't slide. How did you get drawn into that particular aspect of presentation. I think I always love to grab it and I always like to draw create designs at Power Point was a full option for me because it brought my talents together and I always like the fact about our point that point is like a scrapbook where you get content from everywhere and put it all together. You can get a chart from somewhere you can get your texts you can get video you can get pictures and you know you can and even all your stuff and get it all together and make a cohesive pitch to go and present to someone else and go and try and convince them along with their lives. So I think that's something that maybe like Power Point a lot. I never thought of it quite like they're almost like scrapbooking which I'm not into but is a huge huge worldwide phenomenon. But the people and I watch and Zanskar absolutely assume that I'm not a talk about crafting scrapbooks I'm just using scrapbook as an analog shore. So far. Many people in our audience are communications professionals they either are giving speeches with our point or they are responsible for creating powerpoint or release overseeing the creation and the dilemma and most of them face is on the one hand. They read books take or seminars you hear people like me. They say. Pictures pictures pictures focus on one idea preside don't use text but they're in their corporate arena. And before you know it. The big bosses said you know give me a draft or that our point someone starts writing someone else answer that someone else before you know it two months have gone by one hundred man woman hours have gone by. You've got a thirty page. Jack. That is dense with lots and lots of words bullet points in complex grass. That's reality. If you could step in and have a day to really help given that corporate reality. What is your basic advice on how Powerpoint effectively. First of all when they actually ended up creating huge flight deck over a period of days or months and that influences from a whole lot of people. They just spotted about what the of want to say and never left out the most important part and that is their audience and they have to start thinking about what the audience wants to hear. OK. And one sister acting king in those terms it will make it a whole lot easier for them to understand what to remove from the existing content and what to retain I'm going to put an analogue here and try to make it explain it in an easier way with aerial life everyday sample that we all people encounter and that's of window when you have a window in your room and you look out of the window. You only look at what's right in front of you. You cannot see what's on the left. What's on the right. What's about you. What's below you what's behind you because the window actually restricts of you to only a certain area that you can see beyond that window. So that's the audience that's what they want to see so you have. To remove everything that the audience need not see. Because you have a view out of window and you associate that with a view that the audience is going to get to the windows are going to act like a framework and then you realize what you want to retain and what you want to remove and that is what use it to actually make because ultimately no one makes a presentation for themselves they make it for the audience. Well ideally they're making it for the audience. Quite often. People are making it for themselves. They're thinking oh I don't have time to remember or memorize I'll just use this as my poor man's poor woman's teleprompter. Yes I'm fortunately stacks of A You're right. But it's not the right way to do it and you also spoke about text and pictures. And that's that's a very good definition and it's very good to use more visuals then text but even more important than anything I'd rather have a presentation which has got more text and is here to the audience rather than having a presentation that has less text and more pictures but more geared towards what's the percent of also tell them rather than what they want to hear. You are listening to speaking with T.J. Walker. This is the program that talks to world class leaders and dissects how they communicate and what they are communicating our special guest today is key to. The founder in design. One of the most prominent sites in the world. For Power Point Power Point templates Power Point presentation skills and tips. He's also the publisher of the in design a newsletter. That goes out hundreds of thousands of people all over the globe. Is there gives you is there a particular power point. That you can. Put your finger on that you think wow that's the best Powerpoint I've ever seen and I'm using the term powerpoint to mean just generically computer graphics so I'm including of course Apple's version of that. So when I asked a question. Some people mention various Steve Jobs. Presentations but is there a particular presentation which you can think of and it might doesn't have to be somebody famous or certainly the need to be an American that really stands out in your memory is just a great presentation and a great use of Powerpoint frankly no adult tell you why I don't restrict myself to something that it's been used as a presentation because every audience is different. I just can't go I fear that this is going to work for this particular audience. Or this is going to work for me or the school to work for someone else. What at the end of the day the most successful presentation the best presentation has a few characteristics. It is the cure to the audience to it's got a simple message that the audience can understand and they'll remember that when they step out of the room. OK so any presentation that fulfills those three parameters. I think it's got a chance to be among the most successful presentations in the world. I have a hard time with a question to other when pushed I will point out Steve Jobs. Presentation when he was unveiling the i Phone because I do remember very distinctly he said basically why are we here and he could have a picture. And i Pod and he says you know what that is and then he said you know what this is that picture came down and he put up another picture of a flip down says you know what that is. Yes. What are we. What are we going to do today and the two pictures. Merged together into an i Phone. Introducing B. i Phone was one image at a time. You knew were one thing was you know what the other thing was and when you saw them blend together you could figure out how it's now that's also an i Pad for all you music isn't that neat. So here is what is at twelve years later. And I can remember exactly what's on the slide. Where is most para Point presentations if you paid me a ton of money to say what I saw two minutes earlier. I wouldn't be able to tell you. To me that sort of the ultimate test when you remember it. I agree with that and I think Steve Jobs presentation of the launch of i Phone was definitely among the best presentations ever done and success was in no small measure to his personality his delivery and of a he got the message across and you remember the three top things that I spoke about at any presentation which as we successful the best presentation needs to have asked each of us presentation had all three of them. It was for the audience. It had a wonderful message that it gave out and it's remembered even up to today. OK So definitely of what what Steve Jobs has entered that is something of a lesson that all of us have to understand and try and implement it in our presentation but it is a lot of work. You also spoke of I let go about. I don't have time and I'll just go and present what I have but Steve Jobs even being one of the best presenters in the world what practice for the day is after and for every presentation that he gave. And he was a pretty busy guy. Because if you're managing either the largest or one of the tab ten depending on when you're pinpointing his tenure one of the ten largest come. But he's in the world a lot of demands on your time. So I always like dance people you know you say you're busy. Are you really busier than Steve Jobs was Ronald Reagan rehearsed his speech is really really ARE YOU REALLY busier than the president of the United States or what people really mean is I place a low priority on public speaking because my email is more important. It's really what people mean if given a lot of other things. There's another analogic that I typically use like when a company has got to make of that site. Did they get a high level design agency and pay them a huge amount of money and make sure that it works and it gets to probably millions of people. OK And then when they want to make a company brusha probably prints a few thousand copies and again they'll get an i nice high level design agency and pay them a large amount of money to create and get it across to them but when they want to make a presentation and that resolution is going to be delivered only to one person. And that one person is going to decide the future of a company and then what do you do you get someone in-house to just create a bunch of slides and give it to you and that person may be just learned how to create a basic text on a para Point slide the week before lunchtime spending a half an hour doodling around now smarter companies will hire experts and that's part of your business companies all over the world major institutions come to you for help with their Power Point slides their creation. Walk us through what is it you do what's the starting point and what's the final product the starting point. I just put it in a very simple is to make the present the country was baking the presentation understand what they want to say. A lot of times they know what they want to say but it's hidden somewhere in the back of their head to get out from them to do brainstorming with them to get a story out of that and to find out what their audience wants and then their true story is the story that they want to tell and the story that the audience wants to hear to navigate them from what they want to say what the audience wants to hear is a bigger challenge. So that's what I do and craft a message with them and once you have a proper message it's like the example I gave you a looking through a window you can't look what's left. What's right what's top what's bottom. You can only look at what you can see through the window when they reach that stage then I think that's a that's a time when you actually have to go to design state of the presentation and then create the slides in are there any axioms you feel that if not ironclad need to be followed. Most of the time Guy Kawasaki well known. Advisor to startups angel investor venture capitalist. But also a presentation expert famously recommends no more than ten science no more than three bullet points. I think no one in ten words per boll appoint you have any axioms that you feel maybe are ironclad you should follow most of the time I have actually presenting it as an amazing job but you know the rule that he talks about ten flight is not something you follows all the time and what it actually what I think is try to keep us lives to a minimum. OK And that's definitely very very sound advice because having too many flights is one of the first things you can do to a presentation about putting axioms there. I think I don't. Try to impress people just try to inform them when people try to impress start of their form. That's the that's where the problem starts when they try to impress rather than inform they end up putting too many more slights that end up spending too much more time they end up diluting their message and they end up creating something that people will forget when they step out of the room but I want people to think I'm smart you can do that. I mean that's the trouble. It's I believe read in insecurity people. Here I am I want to make people think I'm smart so I'll tell them everything I now use big words and if they don't remember it. If they think I'm smart that will still be great isn't it better to think that your audience is smart. Yes and read them until feel smarter after listening to your I would say is the also missed call. Yes definite How do you do that. How do you do that on a regular basis because you've been publishing in design in your newsletter now for your entire well into your second decade. How do you keep coming up with new stuff. How do you engage people on a topic that some people rightly or wrongly. Feel like it's a checkbox OK I know word processing I know X.L. spreadsheet check Jack. OK I know a Power Point. How do you keep coming up with new material new innovations. Will have the opposite problem I have so much new material new content over there that I have to decide what to actually go and work on and what not. OK So that's that's how it is so I. I really don't have that problem of how to come up with too much. And for people who are interested. We are linking in the show now. To India and a place where you can sign a. For the newsletter walk us through what's in a typical week in the newsletter. It depends on week to week. Some because we have too much content a lot of content more than what we have another weeks. Some weeks where I am not able to put up too much content and that's OK So as long as I can get across our content to them and to be honest and be sincere about what I'm going to get across. I think that's OK because that's what people want in you to be human and just pull up and you have in front of you pull up this week for the most recent newsletter and walk us through what is in this most recent news or so people can figure is this something I need or is this something that I should look at once. I'm not listening or should be consuming every chance I get or is this something I should recommend to a different person with in my organization. So this week newsletter we have an interview with Carmen. SIMON And she talks about how you can create memorable content and she's written this wonderful book impossible to ignore. And she's going to be one of the keynote presenters at the upcoming presentation Summit two thousand and sixteen in Las Vegas next month. So I'm going to I'm speaking to her about what you go to speak in the conference and it's not only important for people who are coming there but a lot of knowledge isn't there for people who are not only in going to attend the conference and then I have a feature that I should I should point out for our listeners. If they want to know more information about that conference we did a full in-depth hour long interview with Rick the conference organizer. Several weeks ago so you can look at that. In our archive if you're interested in learning more about the conference and you'll be you'll be speaking there as well. No I don't speak there. I ended up having so many wearing so many hats there that I must dance. I also and I was at the health center and I don't want to speak to ever I have spoken to in the past but this year. I don't want to stick because I want to do a lot of other things over there so I want to have time to go and meet other people. So that's one of the things that you do over there and if anyone wants to come to the presentations I mentioned last week. Yes I think Rick's only got a few slots available and I highly encourage you all to come there and we actually have people from all over the world coming there and Rick Scott a really amazing thing going and he's done this conference for many many years now. Acting is the fourteenth year and have attended each one of them and it's a wonderful place to be and unfortunate I won't be at that conference but you know any time a fine excuse to get around Vegas I say take these two types of people in the world. Those who love Las Vegas those who hate it if you hate it. There's no convincing you otherwise it doesn't take a while a convincing. I'm I guess one of these rare birds where I don't like gambling and home was Vegas and I'm going there later this week to give a speech account friends and to do work. But I'm extending my stay another three four days taking my wife and a nice time there. My only worry is. Can I stay away from the birthdays and I don't come home ten pounds heavier you know something I've never been to Las Vegas was a first time for me and I'm looking forward to going there. But you know something for those people who really don't like getting the last figures and all the hotels are the same especially if you're a conference and you don't want to step out and be part of the health center learning knowledge and all that stuff. It's the same everywhere. So once you have it within the four walls it really doesn't make any difference where. Well the good thing that's unique about Las Vegas is it really is different. The hotel there is twenty times bigger then. The biggest hotel in New York City. Everything is bigger tacky or gaudy or larger spectacle. Flashier it's a fun place to just walk around and look at things and the Elvis impersonators you see you'll see. At the fattest ugliest people in the world you'll see some of the most beautiful people in the world hawking around there. You see a greater range of extremes and some ways that's what I like about New York City is you just have such a different range of experiences architecture people but Las Vegas is different. I mean everything is sort of new in sick sent to an attic and a little bit fake and phony beautiful stuff. Too. And the shows are bigger I love Broadway shows but the circus salacious. Are on stage is ten times bigger than New York so it's a great spectacle and some ways. It's always relevant to what we're talking about with our point because we do live in a world where not only the most cities in America and in the world the same the roads are the same the chain restaurants are the same. They all blend together so when you do go to a different city or you do watch a powerpoint presentation that's different. Whether it's gaudier big or flash it does stand out and it is memorable What other techniques. Do you have for making powerpoint presentations just not get instantly forgot to me that's the biggest problem most business presenters have it's not that they forget what they're going to say. Wops Where can I answer a question to take us to failure. Most likely scenario for failure for most people in my view here is just that everyone thinks are perfectly fine presentation but instantly forgotten. You know it's correct that it was your back to last. Last August is what it is because other cities are talk like classes and if every city in America was the same the classical said massacres wouldn't stand apart and it would be a horrible world. Absolutely and that's that's probably what happened with power point it's become a horrible world because people use flashy elements and lots of animation and loud slides with you know every time. That gets you to the term debt by Power Point and I'm sure you heard that and just Google it and you'll run into thousands and thousands of pieces. So that's exactly the problem with our point at times where people go and use everything. So what they have to do is they have to keep that flashy part for maybe one slide or two slides an important fact. Wherever to draw attention rather than having it in the whole presentation. OK. Or maybe not even in every presentation and some presentations. So get that last in power point at some parts don't get it everywhere. So that's that's a similarity and an a lot in that I can think of and only the parts that are consistent with this one story about Vegas which I hope find amusing but may find equally distasteful. My first time in Las Vegas maybe eighteen years ago I was struck by one big difference because if you go in most especially back then you go in any town in America whether it's New York City or other towns. On street corners you have vending machines that sell the local paper USA Today. And the New York Times and maybe a weekly business publication that's how it was you know thirty years twenty years ago fifteen years ago. And a lot of places you still see some of that Vegas is different. I remember getting up the first day looking for a newspaper went out straight didn't see it and finally had to go like around the corner store almost like a dark alley behind the hotel to find a newspaper. What was on every street corner on every street corner. They had these big bold. Full. Full colored picture tabloids that were nothing but ads for prostitution services that's what every single street corner in Las Vegas. Newspapers advertising prostitution services and in most cases in most towns in America. That's especially back then. That's what's hidden in sort of the deep recesses. You know an adult bookstore in the bad side of town. You had to really work hard to find that the news is right out front Las Vegas it was exactly the opposite the traditional news was hidden and shameful way that. To be that sudden rise the big difference in Las Vegas but anough Vegas if you don't hear me back on the show in two weeks it means I I changed my position and started gambling again and lost lost the house and studios and let's hope that doesn't go I am sure that would happen. So how it is I have to go even everything in life you can compare city with a presentation program because we can do a lot more comparisons but but that's the whole thing i'm that's full of not only Power Point But anything is life. You just have to keep it simple and. Do everything in moderation not go overboard with anything. Think about your audience get your message across in a way that Dick and remember. You're listening to speaking with T.J. Walker. If you want to get better at your own speeches presentations even powerpoint presentations annoy you have to do is click in the box in the show notes on media training role why dot com and I'll send you at no charge. Access to my online public speaking training course that includes how to give Powerpoint more effectively. So there's no risk. There's no obligation you don't have to give a credit card. You just get to the online course that normally goes for about three hundred bucks. And you can start learning today how to be a better PRESENTER If you like this program please make sure you've subscribed to it. Don't just listen to it on our website once and forget about it. Subscribing items. And if you really like it I would ask a personal favor and go ahead. We reveal. Better yet leave a review and recommend it to a handful of friends and colleagues would be much appreciated. Our special guest today is. He is the founder in design and that is a website and service that gives information insights how to on everything and all aspects of Powerpoint design creation and delivery gets we haven't thought about delivery that much but you would back to deliver powerpoint presentations yourself throughout India Asia and other parts of the world. You also train people how to give more effective Powerpoint presentations. What's it like what does someone experience of there in the audience watching you present. First of all I'd need to know what audiences. I do my homework and find out more about the audience get to know them better. And then I would care. My presentation based on what I think margins would want to know but sometimes I'd say let's say for example the situation is yours thirty. Engineer tech. Managers at Editor were probably your interests as to well known companies the server audiences are when they there are professionals who who give presentations regularly within their company outside their company have let's say their mid thirty's have long careers ahead of them and want to get better and better. What are you going to teach them show them going to them first. For what. I would do I would assume that they're actually up to Steven presentation technique so I would actually go back talk about the content and deliver it with them I would do a storytelling session with them and appeal to the human factor and them and show them and tell them to find a story over there and see about it. Come up with it and make it interactive and that's something that's a lot of titles and that's certainly what I would do. And when you're giving your own power point are you using a lot of slides Is there a particular image you use and one of the things I do when I'm giving a powerpoint presentation on Powerpoint is I purposely. Use. Not only simple images but cheap images. So if I want to convey the idea that you really should not be greedy and do a data down then you should. You should really just focus on a handful of ideas for your whole speech. I put up a picture of my hand and it's just a snapshot from a cellphone it's bad photography. But people remember it so I try to use that as a learning moment. Even at a cheap bad photograph. If it's on point. And people remember it is better than. Nancy is so against complex graph that newsman ten thousand hours are there any images that you have that really resonate with audiences. So let me let me let me put it across this way. Let me get back to your image of a hand. Now the image is not important. E.G.O.'s what's important is the narrative how you give it as part of the story of your presentation how you consented. How involved the audience at that and that pictures telling a story or they're so acting that's the reason why it works rather than just using any other image because then you will not be able to explain it the same way and create a story around that. In the same way that you would do with a picture of your hand. And now let's come to what sort of images work it's it's individual it's different for everyone. Now I always say that you should only use images that you can you know you believe in and something that you can speak about and something you can weave a story with just going and putting up an image and you hear that axiom that pictures hundred thousand words it doesn't help because a picture that you cannot relate to is not even worth a single works OK So use pictures that you believe in. It's not important to go and go to the most famous document sites and get a picture from there. Although sometimes you can get really good pictures from them but the important part is not where you got a picture from you got it from you paid a lot of money to get that or you clicked it yourself or you got it from some of the other sides. It doesn't matter it's important how you relate to that and how you can take your relation with a picture of it into a story and get a message to our audience that is what's going to make a picture successful. That's what you need what stories do you have that resonate the most with your audience and you have a sense. Certainly you like make you tailor each presentation to your audience but there is typically some overlap. Do you have a signature story that people really relate to or. No I don't have a signature story but I have to I have to create a story. Depending on what they want and what the audience. Would you know about who they are associated with whatever relate to my biggest story is probably the audience and I have to make sure that they are part of the story they relate to the story and everything I do is far to the audience and it has to be customized to that audience thought about for them so that they have a benefit from that story and pictures as an accessory as part of that story. The pictures not a story. The pictures just an accessory to the story. I think that's great insight. Everything I do is for the audience. People say that but most people get up and do the the opposite the example I always give with my training group says you know how many of you have sameness you know someone stands up Good morning I'm happy to be here today. My name is this My title was before I started a let me tell you about the boring history of my company when I was thinking about what I want to say in my presentation and there I am and everything I just said is boring. It's all about me. And he says people. It is stage of the relationship. What you care for I'm happy to be here. People feel obligated to say that it's not interesting. People always ask me what's the best way to start a speech is it does need to be a joke now the best way to start a speech is to say something that is for the audience it's interesting for them. That's giving them value and isn't about you. Sounds like you subscribe to the same theory. I do. I really love how how we expressed and put your heart across at easy and it's very important because at the end of the day the audience wants to you know did they have if you have an attitude that says that this is this is what I am this is what I am not interested in that this is about what is and for them. So at the end of the day our day going to benefit from that it's OK because at the end of the day you are presenting to benefit in some way and the audience understands that and accept that fact but they don't want just you to benefit they want to benefit as well and their benefit has to be larger than yours. And so their benefit. Has to have the most more time and when I was when I was speak about yourself as far as possible. If there's nothing that's going to help the audience and what you speak then don't speak about yourself on that level but if you have to speak about yourself as a human being as someone who prescribes to some some some aspect of the story that you're putting across your audience or is living proof of something then I think that's going to add value to the presentation. Otherwise it's not going to help but actually you have to go and speak about yourself but you have to speak about yourself in a way that relates to them that makes it more interesting for them and that's the reason they have come there as part of the presentation to hear you. Otherwise you could have just emailed a presentation to them or just written an email to them. The fact that they had there that been sent President you. But in a way that's going to resonate with them and work with them. Could have just emailed her many times have we sat in an audience and heard a speaker thinking why did I even they could have just emailed this all they're doing is reading and that's not email. Email has it's place and that in your own communication. Empire. Email is a critical part you have hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Which is frankly makes me hate cheaters I'm so jealous because you have ten more than ten times as many subscribers as IDEA how did you get so many subscribers I want you to put your your publisher's hat on. Now as the publisher of a website and A newsletter. How did you build subscribers. How did you put all the pieces together. How did you sustain it. How did she get advertising how do you make it all work I did Dr K. So let let let me let me be honest with you. You see I've been running the site for like sixteen seventeen years. I hand the number of subscribers that I have at articulated to the amount of time I have been online and we have like one hundred ten thousand plus subscribers now and ever there was a time and I had two hundred thousand plus subscribers and I have actually been proactive in finding out the people who are not opening those emails and stuff like that and actually removing them. Because I don't not want too many subscribers because I was paying for all those of cyber who are not reading my emails. So I actually. Actually keep them in my mailing list all the time because I want good subscribers. So it really is not important harmless of skivers you have but what is important. Has how good the at OK And how how much they interact with you. Homicidally to what you say. And that's true. I mean that's really true in any media platform social media platform people pitch me to be guests on the show all the time in our check them out on Twitter and I think wow they've got two hundred thousand subscribers and then I look and they average zero rate tweets and then other people only have five thousand subscribers but they're averaging fifty retreat so guess who I want to have it on as a guest. Perfect and I'm sure that's how it is and ultimately it's different from person to person to say we really just can't go and create a pattern there because human beings are typically different bits at some point you. You've got over an initial how many people myself included think hey I have a particular interest. I have a professional interest I have expertise. Let me start a website. Let me start a newsletter. And they start it whether it's six months later a year later. It just doesn't seem to be going anywhere and. Did you have any hurdles initially where you thought. I don't know this is working or is it been somewhat slow steady growth throughout to answer a question I had to continue a conversation that we had at the beginning of the call. OK so I told you that I started the site because all the newsgroup people were asking the same type of questions. And rather than type a long answer all the time I would just send them to my site where the information was there so decided to start with any financial benefit in mind. So it was just a passion and a hobby and I've developed it that way. And in some level it sounds like it was a time saving measure rather than rewriting the same thing and all these newsgroups you could just send people at your website Absolutely you're right that that's all of us and I also was working in a family business at that point of time so I really did not have to worry about who's going to pay the bills next. And my family business was of a nature where I needed to be at a certain physical location and be there and I did not have to work all the time or that I just had to be present over there. So what I would start started doing is I started working with presentations. Stuff like that and the sight of all out of that experience and since I do not have to worry about if I'm getting any financial benefit out of this website. I think that was very very important factor and getting it to the level that it is today but definitely later on I left out of this and I got full time to the website because it became a larger thing and it continues to this day and and definitely it is a financial benefit for me as well and that's my primary revenue source and curious what was the family business. You do food products and I will confess there is nothing in there. I love more than Indian anything I might have seen there on the shelves of Casco because they do stock in the US I feel active. Yes. So the issue is how for a lot of people. How do you go from OK I've got your side business wherever people ask me questions I talk about. How do you get to the point where you have the confidence to look someone in the army or talk to them over the phone or even send an email saying Hey I have content so valuable. And audience so valuable. I want you to pay money. How do you get to that point where you are comfortable and competent and successful at getting sponsors. You know sponsors come you don't get them really speaking people would only come and spend money when they want to spend money rather than you wanting them to spend money. OK And this is this is how it's actually I've been lucky and fortunate as happened that way for me. Advice I'm not the type of person who could go and get people to come. And spend money on the site. So for me it's been fortunate being the other way around. So you're saying you literally wait for sponsors to contact you first. Yes most of the time. That's what happens when that that's a testament to your product because most people whether it's just Web sites the whole mantra is go out there aggressively hostile hostile hostile sponsors you're actually focusing on content. And the O.B. old axiom from the Kevin Costner movie build it and have a will come about. That's not the literal quote doesn't work for most people in most industries it does seem to work for you and your website doesn't work for a lot of people because of that fact is that you really need to be sure that you can spend a few years and work on something and if you don't have any financial compensation for that it should be fine with you but unfortunately it's not possible. Most of the time I'm just saying that I was fortunate enough that it was possible for me and that's how it avoids. And the way you described it it was a true organic beginning in that people were asking you questions they were already seeking out your information because you were already an active member of newsgroups and bulletin board. Let's take just a second. Now for some of our younger audience members and Millennial is listening. They don't necessarily know what a newsgroup or a bulletin board was let's go back in time seventeen fifteen even twelve years ago on the Internet. What are you talking about a newsgroup not the typical newsgroup that I was being part of and frequently visiting was Microsoft had news where they had news groups dedicated to their main products including Powerpoint where people would come and post questions and those types of questions are all text you really couldn't put too many a time. Fans of visuals and newsgroups and then someone would go and type them over there and right answers. It's the forums that you see it out on their browser our evolution off those newsgroups and actually they are much much more advanced than what newsgroups where at that point of time but you know there are some advantages of newsgroups as well because they load it fast. You only have the content. No additives Vince and you could take your time to respond to them and they worked a whole lot better with less distractions. Good issues. I want you to look in your crystal ball and make predictions for five years from now on how major corporations major conferences are going to be using technology in their presentations recently. You probably saw it to mask was giving a presentation and he had. A screen behind him that looked like it was. You know maybe twenty feet tall but maybe fifty feet wide. It filled up the whole stage. Certainly people are buzzing about virtual reality other I have been seeing people giving our virtual reality gargles two thousand people at a convention. Do you have any predictions on any major technology changes that we're going to see the corporations and trade associations of the biggest budgets using. I think a whole lot of thing is going to happen. And what's going to happen now in the near future and even in the larger future. There's going to be a whole lot of technologies that are really going to expand into an amazing way but they're also going to be a lot of small changes are going to happen that a lot of people will miss out and they might thing that's not they're not important but they're going to be equally important. And they're going to if I have to put across what's going to change. There's going to be revolution in technologies and there's going to be a revolution. An attack analogy but they're going to happen at the same time and they're going to complement each other and I don't think everyone can be everywhere. As long as they keep up to date with a few technologies and see how it evolves and works on them and be is happy about what they're doing at in that apartment. Is there any technology you're most excited about for your own personal business because you've been in every medium here you've published half a dozen traditional books paper digital books electronic books. You publish newsletter publish websites you do person workshops you do in person speeches. Where do you see your own business evolving with respect to any media change or technology change. We have spoken about this in the past you say and I think we do is a very very big thing that's coming up now it's very we do is already everywhere. And the high bandwidth capacity available everywhere and a lot of video content being developed and it's very easy to consume. I think video is going to be very good even better and bigger and that is to come and the technologies that go with video are the ones that are going to expand and even with our point. I mean like a few years ago four five years ago. Among the most asked for a feature request our point was to convert a whole powerpoint presentation to the video clip which is a reality today and even if I just go to our website like youtube. I am amazed that a very very large amount of videos on youtube are all created in powerpoint. And let's go to that scrapbook analogy. Can they take their pictures video or even video clips and voiceover animation text put them all together. Export everything to a video clip and then post it on youtube video or anywhere and share that content. So as I said earlier they're going to be large experiences and small important stuff that's going to happen to get at the same time. Not video as a larger experience a lot of stuff is going to happen with video but without being able to export to radio that small factor also going to play a very large role. So I think both of these large aspects of a small aspect are going to complement each other. The website is in design in flux if you haven't signed up yet. Or you're just hearing about it for the first time in this program take a moment and either go into the show notes or just type into your browser right now. I N D E Z I N E and sign up for the newsletter it's chock full of valuable information I have subscribed for years and years so I heartily endorse it. Karishma Josh thank you for being our guest today is going to thanks for listening to speaking with T.J. Walker with the communication skills in practice in class leaders are dissecting.

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